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From Activism to Actionism: Rachel Sheila Kan's Vision for Circular Fashion

5 Key Insights from Our Conversation on Circular Fashion with Rachel Sheila Kan


In this latest episode of Inspiring Thursday, we had the privilege of hosting Rachel Sheila Kan, a sustainability advocate and founder of Circular Earth. Rachel shared her journey, thoughts, and we dove deep into how circularity and collaboration are shaping the future of fashion.



(Full transcript at the end of the page)


Here are five transformative insights Rachel shared on building a more sustainable, transparent, and impactful industry:

 

  1. Circular Fashion Is More Than Just a Product Concept - It's as System

 

Circular fashion goes beyond producing recyclable garments; it’s about rethinking how the entire fashion system functions. Rachel stressed that circularity requires a shift from traditional linear models to holistic ecosystems that support a product’s lifecycle from conception to reuse. This means designing products not only to be recyclable but to fit into a broader network where resources are constantly regenerated. For businesses, this translates to reimagining every aspect of their operations, from sourcing materials to managing waste, all to build a system that perpetually sustains itself.

 

  1. Collaboration Is the Key to Moving Forward

 

Rachel emphasized that collaboration is essential to achieve lasting change. Small innovators bring fresh ideas and sustainable materials, but they often lack the resources or support to scale their innovations. Larger brands, on the other hand, have the resources but may struggle with adopting these new practices. Rachel believes that true progress requires these groups—and investors—to join forces. Through collaborative ecosystems like Vestis Labs and Circular Earth, small and large players can work together to support each other’s strengths, ensuring that sustainable practices are feasible and scalable across the industry.

 

  1. The Impact of Transparency in the Supply Chain

 

Rachel discussed the “Sanja Stories” project, an initiative designed to add full transparency to the supply chain by using digital solutions like Digital Product Passports (DPP). This project not only maps a product’s journey down to the seed level but also involves customers in the story, allowing them to personalize garments and follow their lifecycle. Connected product strengthens emotional connection, fosters more meaningful engagement, and adds value for both brands and consumers—a game-changing shift that creates a deeper attachment and commitment to sustainability.

 

The involvement of Vestis Labs in the Sanja Stories project is crucial for implementing the Digital Product Passport (DPP) technology. Vestis Labs provides the technical platform that allows for detailed tracking and data collection throughout the product lifecycle. This includes everything from sourcing materials to the final garment reaching the consumer. Vestis Labs' digital tools help bring transparency and visibility into each step, ensuring that all stakeholders—brands, manufacturers, and consumers—have access to real-time information about the origins and journey of their clothing. By leveraging this technology, Sanja Stories aims to redefine transparency and enforce connected product concept in fashion, giving customers the ability to fully understand and engage with the lifecycle of their garments, enhancing emotional durability and overall sustainability.

 

  1. The Need for Mindset Shift—From Activism to Actionism

 

Rachel believes in shifting from a mindset of activism to one of “actionism.” Rather than focusing on the industry’s problems and potential environmental doom, she advocates for actionable solutions that inspire positive change. For Rachel, it’s about showing what’s possible through real-world examples, like Sanja Stories, and empowering brands to take tangible steps toward sustainability. This approach fosters a sense of hope and possibility, motivating brands and consumers alike to actively engage in sustainable practices instead of feeling overwhelmed by the challenges.

 

  1. Incremental but Encouraging Progress in Circularity

 

Looking ahead, Rachel sees incremental progress in the adoption of circularity in the next 5 to 10 years, spurred in part by upcoming legislation and the increasing push for transparency. She believes that a key to real progress is not only mitigating past mistakes but also investing in innovation—new business models, new products, and new systems. Though challenges remain, including political uncertainties and the risk of greenwashing, there are strong signs that momentum is building, especially with rising interest from both consumers and entrepreneurs who want to make a meaningful impact.

 

Final Thoughts

 

Rachel’s insights remind us that the journey towards a truly circular fashion industry is a collective effort requiring both bold systemic change and small, actionable steps. It’s about nurturing new mindsets, investing in collaborations, and continuously innovating—and it’s also about building an industry that invites all stakeholders, from brands to consumers, to take part in creating a sustainable future.

 

To connect with Rachel Sheila Kan, you can find her on LinkedIn or visit her website for more insights and updates on her work.


To leran more about Vestis Labs' digital solution, contact us on [email protected]


Full Transcript:

Fonny Bunjamin  0:00  

Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of inspiring Thursday, where we explore key insights, trends and innovations that are shaping the fashion industry. I'm Fonny from Vestis Labs, and today we have an exciting guest with us, Rachel Sheila Kan. Hi Rachel. So. Rachel is a founder of circular Earth and a sustainability advocate with over 20 years of experience in the fashion industry. So Rachel is a leading voice on circularity and transparency, and she's been working with fashion brands to rethink their approach to fashion by focusing on sustainable policy practices, also working on a collaborative project with us here at fastest Labs, which is called the Sanja Stories. We'll delve into that in more details later on. So welcome to the show, Rachel.


Rachel Sheila Kan  0:52  

Thanks for having me Fonny.


Fonny Bunjamin  0:53  

so Rachel, you've had quite a journey in the fashion industry, from design and managing supply chains to becoming a key advocate for sustainability. So what was the pivotal moment that made you shift your focus towards sustainability and ultimately led to the creation of circular Earth?


Rachel Sheila Kan  1:15  

It's been a big journey, and I guess it was, I always thought that there was one pivotal moment, and that was when my mother passed away and and really went towards it and and stuff. But actually, I think it's been amalgamation over time, right, even from when I was a young girl, and would watch my grandfather recycle these tin cans, literally for charity. And also my mother was very into sort of the, you know, nature and that kind of thing. And then over the over the years, I got into the fashion industry and really saw the mass amount of stuff that was created just for creation sake, sometimes just for, you know, creating mass production and over consumption and things like that. And it got to a point where actually sort of felt sick to design anymore, since I was a designer and design manager for 20 years, and then layered this over, right? So, yeah, I'd been interested in it for even, like, 20 years ago, and then started to go to events and things that were very tiny at the time, and built up my interest over time. And but yeah, the first sort of jump was when my mother passed away, where I was like, actually, I need to stand for this now. And I sat there and saw my kids, looked at my kids who were very young at the time, sort of babies, baby, toddler, sort of age. And I thought, I want to stand for their future and the future of their children, etc, and everyone else's so I thought, right, we've got to do something about that. Right?


Fonny Bunjamin  2:52  

Yeah, so that's, that's quite a journey that you've had. So now circularity is a big focus for you, and circular fashion is often discussed as a solution to some of the industry's biggest problems. But for those that are not familiar, can you just briefly kind of explain what circular fashion really is and why it's such an essential part of the future of the industry.


Rachel Sheila Kan  3:21  

yeah. I mean, gosh, how long?


Fonny Bunjamin  3:24  

Just, you know your elevator pitch of what circular fashion is?


Rachel Sheila Kan  3:27  

it's really interesting, right? Because when you first start in sustainability, you really think it's just about the product, right? And you're like, yeah, like, if we make, if we make product that is really designed in a certain way. It goes back into system over and over. That's possible, right? And I think a lot of people focus on circularity as being just about the product, which is a really important part. But when I started to apply it in real life and work with other circularity professionals, like Ken, my business partner in circularity, I really, really realized how much a part of systems change, and the way that we're going to even collect these things and put them back into system, how businesses need to change to reflect a new circular economy. So actually, my sort of view of it morphed into this, this more regenerative aspect of seeing this as a whole system, and how you actually start to apply that in in a new business sense, right? Like so for me, it is about not just looking at a product which is important, iterating it, but thinking, Okay, how does that sit in with the way my business is run itself, and how does, how does that transform over time? Because we're not going to be able to continually create overproduction. We have to essentially create less and have that work for our business. So we have to be realistic about. How we're going to work with these new type of economics. So we focus not only on the product, and we can totally go into that focus on the business models and the structures and systems that will support that transition.


Fonny Bunjamin  5:14  

Yeah, so circular fashion is not just a circular product it's part of a whole circular ecosystem. You cannot just isolate one part without, you know, having the other.


Rachel Sheila Kan  5:27  

You can totally have a circular product that's really circular, but still is unsustainable, right? And that's an interesting thing, circular, but actually, you haven't thought about toxins, or how that relates to water, or how that relates socially, or how that relates to where you are creating this centrally, right? So it is a whole systems perspective for us, for sure.


Fonny Bunjamin  5:51  

It is a huge kind of system overall change also. And from your perspective, then what are the biggest challenges that you've seen brands face when trying to adopt circular practices, and how they can actually, you know, overcome these challenges.


Rachel Sheila Kan  6:10  

Yeah. I mean, I think it depends on what's the size of the business, right? And that's why I work with nurturing small micro businesses. They can be like, super agile. They can create this kind of stuff and create examples, which is what we'll talk about earlier, yeah, later on, right? But they can create these sort of agile examples. But they have a problem with gaining traction, getting like, seen investment, maybe that kind of thing. And some, some of the fiber people that we work with definitely have trouble with trying to get investment in the system if bigger brands, or even medium sized brands, are not giving them letters of intent, for instance, like they don't even have to create a purchase order. There's a different there's kind of like people who's got the innovation here, and then they're sometimes quite small, or they they've grown to a certain space, you know, like the conversations we've had with Circulos as well in our in our real circularity Summit, have been about, okay, we've got this amazing thing, but then we need, like, the traction from the brands and The investment from the brands in this idea as well. So again, there's an interlocked sort of system, because no one business is going to do this alone, right? It's going to take these innovators and the brands coming together to to actualize this stuff. So I think that that's a big barrier, that we have to come into a bit more of a collaborative aspect to be able to actualize on a lot of that stuff. And then there's another part where I think there's a lot of tick boxing in the larger industry, like, okay, let's let's measure two. Let's focus on zero, right? I didn't get up this morning and said, say to myself, I'm going to go for zero today, right? Like we want to create much more benefits and much more progress in this space. So I think there's a siloed thinking inside of most businesses, even sometimes smaller ones as well, that focus on the things that are energetic at that time, rather than a whole systems perspective. Now I know what. I'm not going to wave my magic wand, and this happens in in a day, right? I'm not, I'm not naive. But, yeah, that's what's not progressing this overall, I think.


Fonny Bunjamin  8:37  

Where do you think the highest bottleneck, so to speak, is that the brands? Is it the consumers? Is it the regulatory body? How do we actually kind of get people together?


Rachel Sheila Kan  8:49  

I think it's a massive dance that we all have to play. Right where I started lecturing, even we'd I'd sit around with my students, and we'd be like, is it the customer that drives this? Or is it the industry, or is it legislation? I actually think it's a dance between all of them, right. And I think like legislation now, with the EPR coming into play, will be a huge, huge nudge to businesses, right? I think will be a lot of lobbying against it, and I think it will move people into a space of action, right? At least on their waste, right? I've had businesses come to ask me about, what do I do with my waste? I'm like, we design it to not be waste in the first place. Okay, we can get into mitigation to start off with.


Fonny Bunjamin  9:34  

Which is so important to start from, the very you know, the conception of the product because otherwise a little bit too late.


Rachel Sheila Kan  9:43  

Well yeah, you're still creating a linear product. So we can create all the sharing economy systems and repair system, if it's not a part of a bigger circular model. We're still captivating linear product. And that's the problem, right? That we're like businesses are. Go. I'm done. I've got, I've got my repair scheme, I've got my share and economy thing, you know? I can, I can rent some stuff. But we need to go above and beyond that, because we're still creating in a linear, centralized model, and it's basically still a degenerative path to landfill or somewhere else, right? Or incineration, yeah. So there's a lot more to do, I think, than that. So I think the bottleneck is potentially this part, where we're not seeing the full benefits of what could be created, right? But I think we've come way farther than that. When I started 10 years ago, you know, definitely there's been massive progression.


Fonny Bunjamin  10:40  

Which is a positive thing, which is really, you know, good to hear, right? You know, you you've been kind of in this space for such a long time, and you have seen positive changes over the years, which is encouraging.


Rachel Sheila Kan  10:51  

yeah. I mean, it's still very incremental, but the fact that we're starting to see a little bit of nudge and a little bit of movement. It might be EPR that has pushed that sort of change in into into repair and and sharing economy, but you know that, and that's a good thing, right? And the customers are asking for it as well. There are a percent, a good percentage, of customers that are more aware now than they were 10 years ago, for sure, right? And customers will ask more of of the companies. I also say, seen a big intrapreneur sort of side of things, right? That with our academy, for instance, we've got people who join our academy from inside of large businesses who are really concerned, but they want to learn themselves for how that, how that they can apply this inside of a business from the inside, right? We don't always have to quit our job and be an entrepreneur to do this. We can actualize it inside of a business as well. But there's a massive interest in people inside of businesses who want to see more from the businesses that they're in, but don't particularly want to quit either, right? So, and also from the student base, like, I've got a lot of people that come to me for mentorship that are like, how do I get a job in find a job in a conscious company? I'm like, Okay?


Fonny Bunjamin  12:12  

That's a good sign.


Rachel Sheila Kan  12:14  

I think both the customer base and the entrepreneurial base will push as well from the inside. So I see this momentum growing over time. It's so small, sometimes you think it's so there's not enough of us, right? But it is growing incrementally in all of those aspects, in legislation, in the customer and inside of businesses. It might not be the top person that's thinking of it, or they might be thinking on it, of it, and trying to implement it. But again, at least there's iteration going on.


Fonny Bunjamin  12:47  

Yeah. I think what I find challenging for business owners or brands is just that they're thinking of it and they want to implement it. There's just so many things that they're bombarded with as well that, you know, these things are just kind of, you know, push down the priority list, and then,


Rachel Sheila Kan  13:04  

Generally, what's going on for most people, right? Like, if you're trying to grow your own business, you're very much in a silo of, this is what I'm doing. This is, yeah, only channel type thing. And 100% granted, we're all running around trying to feed our children. Have a hand roof over our head, just like, just like, keep up with what's happening at the school or something like that. So of course, like, adding this to anyone else's workload is going to be like, that's a lot to do, but you know, that's why external help is really important. Bring in the specialists, bring in the A team, right? You Me and all of the others that have massive, great specialisms that I've been working with for ages, that could come together and really create a difference for a business, even in an agile way, even in like, let's look at one product or one, yeah, combined a set of products with the same fabrication, right? And let's actually see what we can do with a business model, how we can create, like, much more interests in your business by using circularity and using regenerative principles to create a star product for you. You know, yeah, so I don't, I don't think we always have to look inside of a business because, like, you say quite rightly, everyone's like, yeah, I've gotta get on with this. I've gotta make profits. I've gotta do this. Okay, let us come and help with that.


Fonny Bunjamin  14:29  

Okay, so now I'd like to touch on the Sanja stories, which is, you know, the project that you've been working on, very interesting project. And that's the reason why, you know, I'm involved as well, because, you know, I totally believe in this, and we are bringing the digital solution into the mix, the digital ID to promote the transparency in the supply chain, strengthen the communication and also facilitates the circularity. Now, can you explain how this project aligns with your vision of circular fashion? And what impact do you believe it has on how both brands and consumers can understand the life cycle of a garment?


Rachel Sheila Kan  15:09  

We've got like that really great tech, and because we've got like, a bottom up approach where you'll we're able to go in right down to the seed level to really have massive full transparency on it. Being able to map it with you has been really, really progressive for that kind of thing. So Sanja was created with from our ecosystem incubator, an IQ system. Incubates collaboration, right? So, brings together micro players that otherwise would have been separately, doing something in different specialisms, right? So we've got a cardi London team who've got great access to that transparency base, great access right through to the seed, fully regeneratively grown. Have massive integrity on what they're doing, right? Fully hand woven, working with with CMT units in India, right? And then we brought together, myself in terms of design and designing the business model itself. So everything that we're doing is kind of like trying to be as radical as we can within capabilities. We then brought together, like garment tech, who basically sizes it so it's a it's a genderless clothing. It's adjustable width ways, length ways. It's thought about in terms of its evolution and like, what's going to happen next to it. We have modular panels from the knees that come in and out, so that you can upgrade it like over time, it comes completely naked, so there's no toxins on it at all. And the customer the most important things that the customer is a part of the story. And this is why it's called Sanja story. Sanja in Hindi means collaboration or partnership, which we thought was very poetic, and then sustainability and the way that you share it is has always been about stories, right? Whether we show the transparency story through your DPP or whether we're speaking it into existence here, right? The customer part is a really important part as well, because we want them to be a part of the story, and with your DPP as well, we want to add in that customer journey, the customers themselves will join a customer buying club somewhere where they pay the cost price. First, we're going to tell you exactly what the cost price is, which is radical, right? Because in most brands, like, I'm not going to tell you what margins I'm getting are part of the story. They'll come to events and they'll fit the genes with us, right? So they can really get a feel for how much work really goes into creating one this is one skew Right? Like, yes in one product, just waters yes and yeah, over time, then they would get their gene, and they would come and naturally diet or print it in whatever, in a non toxic way, and they'd be able to then show their story of where it goes, who borrows it, right? Because, you know, literally share this with my son, you know, or or my partner, or whatever, right? Because it's it's so adjustable. So together, we created this star product that can be fully circular. That's mono, mono material. Cardi London themselves have been doing a circular cardi project to get that back into system mechanically, not just organically, right? So not just compostable, which it is, we want to go that extra mile and take it back mechanically. And, yeah, it's an absolute star in terms of the product, but also the business model, right.


Fonny Bunjamin  18:53  

And I really find it interesting. And for me, you know, like the appeal as well. I mean, I, of course, I love the product. I love the ethos of the whole concept, but you know, it is also for us to be involved, you know, it's such an interesting project because we can provide this transparency from where everything is coming from. You know, that storytelling is there, the transparency is there. Then, you know, once a customer buys it, then you can start, like you said, building the stories with the customers, using our tech, you know, to see how durable the product is, how it can be shared, how what is the color? What is, you know, because the customer will dye themselves, which I think is an amazing idea. And build up these stories to kind of, also, how do you call it, increase that emotional attachment to that garment, right? So, which is very important, it's not a throwaway garment. It's not something that you buy you wear once, and then chuck it in the bin. It's a product that is, full with that stories, not only the product stories, but also the user stories.


Rachel Sheila Kan  20:05  

I think that emotional durability of something is really important, yes. And also like it fits and I'll wear it and it's comfortable and it just with my size, but also because I've personalized it, yes, it's become come part of my world, I'm going to want to keep hold of it for a longer time, or at least share it with the people I love.


Fonny Bunjamin  20:27  

And document it. And building stories inside the garment. And if it goes to the second hand, for example, owner after that, he makes it even richer, right? For the new user or the new owner of the garment, it's something which is really interesting.


Rachel Sheila Kan  20:47  

Exactly, and then they'd be able to take on the DPP input, what they're doing with it.


Fonny Bunjamin  20:51  

Exactly so it's like this continuous thing, which is disconnected products. I find it game changing, It's not only for the brands, but also for consumers experience, which I find very fascinating.


Rachel Sheila Kan  21:06  

The other benefit of it as well, business wise, has also and in our realtor clarity work, we call these processional benefits. There's processional benefits of the product, but there's actual processional benefits of being a part of the collaborative right? So because we're able to share that star product together, we're then able to be seen in our respective businesses on a  B to B sort of advantage. 


Fonny Bunjamin  21:32  

Very exciting. So it's very exciting to see how technology, circularity and storytelling are coming together for such an impactful change. Now shifting the gear slightly. One point that you often raise is the need for a mindset, a mindset change or shift when we talk about sustainability. So instead of focusing on climate disaster, you advocate for framing it as an intelligent, proactive transformation. So can you share more about why this approach is so important and how it can drive a more long, lasting change in the industry?


Rachel Sheila Kan  22:12  

When I first started, I was a bit activist. I've got to say, it was like, Go boohoo bashing sort of thing going on, right? And I think at the time, there was a lot of that, and I realized after some time, and after actually going on much more of a regenerative journey. So I worked into regenerative leadership, which is why I kind of created the ecosystem. And this more, I want to say, holistic way of thinking, but it was, it's a regenerative way of thinking and creating business and things. And I realized that that way of being would switch people off, right? If you're trying to talk to people saying we're going to die, is probably like, not the best motivational tool. It's not to discount really what is going on, because the wicked problems in this world are massive, to start to inspire and also to show what's possible. So I wanted to be inspirational and share and do speaking and do all of this and create all of this stuff, but my main thing was to actually create examples of what's possible and to inspire with action, not activism, but action, actionism, I suppose, in a way, right? Okay, it's a nice word. Yes, it's not even a word. I just made it up today. But, you know, like that, we can actually show the future, even if that's in the most tiny way, yeah, those seeds of ideas of, you know, the collaborative, the bigger ecosystem, the micro businesses that are created from it, even the outside collaborations that happen in in our consultancies or or beyond, like how We're working with businesses, how we're sharing with those that that literally shows what's possible in a small way, so that we can then start to say, look, there's validation for this. We can do this. You know, there are other ways of running businesses, there are other ways of structuring your finances. There are other ways of, of running an industry, right? So, all right, I've got lofty ideas long term, but, you know, I think that was a big turning point, right? Like, going from this activist sort of like, and I think that's where most people wake up. They kind of go, hang on, look, fire, flames. What's going on over there? Why is no one else seeing it, right? I remember seeing a video by Charles Eisenstein, one of, one of my great inspirations in the regenerative space, or in the system space. I suppose he called more myself, more of a systems thinker, right? That there was one, one video called. The maze, and he speaks about this. Why? Why is no one like seeing this? Why is everyone talking about Kim Kardashians underwear or lack thereof? Right? Because indoctrinated to this way of doing things, we're focusing on that because that's what we've done, that's what we continue to do, right? And to step out of that is a mindset shift in oneself as a new entrepreneur or a new new future sort of person. But I to get like that that takes something from people who are already indoctrinated into the business as usual system, and to be compassionate for that, right? So with his video, I was then sort of like sitting in this might take a very long time, and that that's okay, you know? And it's about this, this constant evolution and transition over time, right? For for mindset shifts, and to be compassionate about everyone else's understanding of the world as they see it.


Fonny Bunjamin  26:02  

That's such a powerful approach, I should say. And I think it's one that, you know, everybody can resonate, right? The brands, the consumers. So, thank you for that. So before we wrap up, Rachel, you've been on this sustainability journey for many years now, and looking ahead, where do you see the fashion industry in the next 5 to 10 years, and what key changes do you hope to see in terms of sustainability and circularity?


Rachel Sheila Kan  26:31  

I see it being kind of like 5 to 10 years. It's very short time. I think, for me, right? I feel that though, there will be an evolutionary nudge, especially with the legislation coming out. That will nudge businesses, and we will start to see some transformation. I'd like for more percentage of ranges to move and transition towards circular models and business models and finance, and I'd like to see a lot more cash and injection coming into the innovation space rather than the mitigation space, so I can see that there is a sense of trying to clean up the waste and the linearity that we've created, and that's important. It's definitely on a kind of governmental level when they've like faced with all of this stuff. But I think to actually create it, we're going to have to see a lot more invested in innovation, and that's not just only of the product, but in terms of these, the new business models that are out there. So I think that there will be movement towards those, if I have anything to do with it. But yeah, who knows where the political landscape will take us, you know, seeing what's happening in the US, for example. So yeah, really is sort of,what's going to happen next?


Fonny Bunjamin  27:58  

We certainly are living in a very uncertain climate, right? You know, in everything political and so forth, so very unsettling time, so to speak.


Rachel Sheila Kan  28:09  

Indeed. But great words of Buckminster Fuller, he always said, you don't change the system by fighting the current system. You change the system by creating a new system that's more compelling than the old one.


Fonny Bunjamin  28:26  

I like that. This is really good one.


Rachel Sheila Kan  28:29  

One quote I really stand on, right? Let's create and show what's possible and invite people to be a part of it.


Fonny Bunjamin  28:40  

Super inspiring. I love that. So thank you so much for joining us today, Rachel and for sharing your insights and your inspiring goods and knowledge. So it's clear that you know what you're doing is amazing, and you know projects like Sanja Stories and your work with circular Earth are helping to shape create this new system that you know, you just kind of mentioned, so that's amazing. Before we go, where can our listeners reach you?


Rachel Sheila Kan  29:11  

The best website to go to. I have many, but everything is linked to my website. That is www.rskan.com, and you can find all of the different avenues of our work via my positioning website for sure.


Fonny Bunjamin  29:26  

Okay. And LinkedIn as well, right? 


Rachel Sheila Kan  29:28  

On LinkedIn you can look for me there on LinkedIn, yeah.


Fonny Bunjamin  29:31  

If anybody wants to, you know, get involved and be part of the Sanja stories community. Where can they go? 


Rachel Sheila Kan  29:40  

That one is sanjastories.com, so you can go and find out all about that project there and sign up and, yeah, become a part of the story.


Fonny Bunjamin  29:50  

So for our listeners, be sure to follow Inspiring Thursday for more conversations with thought leaders in the industry. Don't forget, of course to check out Vestis Labs. Follow us on LinkedIn and Instagram and for more exciting updates. And until next time, I'm Fonny and this is Inspiring Thursdays.




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